How does transferred Pro8mm look?

[Krumly]

Has anyone here tried Super8Sound's so-called "Pro8mm" negative film? I'm most curious about how it looks once transferred to video. Is the grain greatly more noticeable than 16mm on a video screen? Thanks in advance for any info.

[Nigel]

The little that I have worked with Super8Sound's stocks they don't look as good as reversal. Now, if you need anything higher than 200ASA you have to go with them. The colorist I have used does not like to deal with them because even through a wet gate they tend to get and hold dust. Good Luck

[mattias]

this would obviously depend on which of the stocks you use, but my experience (just tests. never used it for a real production) is that if you pick a 200 asa stock or slower, it will look as good as 16. if you compared them side by side, i'm sure you would see a difference though.

/matt

[Basstruc]

You can see stil images of Pro8mm film stocks ( also Plus X ) at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/6811/home.html

Matt

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[Nigel]

I am not impressed. In my opinion Super8 Sound are crooks. I have taken some of the best pictures of my career with Kodachrome and a RANK transfer from CinePost(a good colorist can work wonders). I have had Super8 Sound cartridges jump and I have had bad customer service from them. It is my personal feeling that Super8 Sound has done more to destroy Super8 than to help it. I think that now that there are at least three labs offering RANK Transfers our costs will hopefully come down--which will hopefully lead to competition for the guys in Burbank.

[philX2]

The pro stuff looks as good as any 16 mm providing that you are exposing it correctly. You will not want to use your cameras built in light meter and you'll want to use pro lighting techniques. Stick with the VISION stocks, though, because they have the finer grain. The colors come out great, the skin tones are superb, and the blacks and whites punch out to you. Just about every commercial and music video you see now is shot on Pro 8. Including VH1s The Storytellers. If you get it transferred via a rank system and tell the colorist to make it look like 16mm, you should have good results.

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[mattias]

every music video and commercial? only the very low end ones use anything less than 35mm, unless they want the grain of the smaller frame.

as for exposure, it's actually very easy to expose vision stock correctly. anything within 2 stops over or under will look great an sometimes you can even live with 4 stops overexposure. maybe you're confusing it with "lighting it properly"? because of the huge latitude, it can be tricky to get the contrasts right if you're after a certain dramatic effect.

and the colors, the blacks and the whites? they sure don't beat reversal. where did you get your information?

[Nigel]

Matt--
You are dead on this one. The Pro8 stocks are trash in my opinion. Reversal gives better colors on transfers whether they are RANK or not. You may not get the latitude that Vision Stocks allow for but if you are careful you can really be surprised. The Pro8 stocks are a scam and have done more to kill Super8 than to save it. They give people like me who try to convince directors that a scene or a shot would look great on Super8 a bad name.

[IndieFilmsOnline.com]

Super 8 Film Stock

Kodak Makes:

1. Plus-X Reversal B&W
2. Tri-X Reversal B&W
3. Ektachrome Reversal
4. Kodachrome Reversal

AND

Kodak makes

5. Vision 200T Color Negative

Super8 Sound in Burbank
slices up all of the Kodak 35mm
film stocks and some others into
Super 8 film stock.

TELECINE
A good colorist with a Super 8 Gate
on a Rank Cinetel Telecine machine
can get a good look from
Super 8 Color Reversal
and from
Super 8 Color Negative.

SUPER 8 Rank Gates
On the West Coast:
YALE FILM & VIDEO - N. Hollywood
SUPER8 SOUND - Burbank

Cintel (Rank) in Valencia
also has two (2) other Super 8 Gates
that the rent to a number of
post houses in Los Angeles.

RUSHES
Is a top of the line post house
that Cinematographers work with
on TV Spots.

Chaz, the colorist there, is an
excellent colorist.

FILM STOCK - TOOLS
I see various film stocks as tools.
Ektachrome has an Ektachrome look
that works as a Super 8 stock.
It is very good for exterior
daylight shots, and when I want
to set my Canon 1014XL-S to
Automatic Exposure and push
the 36 fps button.

The Ektachrome cartridge
has a NOTCH on the side of it
that sets the ASA inside the
Canon 1014XL-S for automatic
exposure.

It works fine for some shots.

Super 8 Color Negative:

I often use Vision 500t
interior shots.

I also use it in Daylight
with no 85 filter knowing
that I plan to correct the
color in Telecine.

It works fine.

Recently I shot a CitiBank
TV Spot as second unit
cinematographer using Super 8,
and we had a shot inside a
parking structure with a
skate boarder riding down
the interior ramps.

I shot Vision 500T and
it worked fine.

EXPOSURE
When I shoot S8 Color Negative
I often shoot OVEREXPOSED by
more than ONE STOP. Maybe
TWO STOPS or more so that I can
give the Telecine Colorist something
to work with.

If I underexpose Color Negative
film stosk, the film is nearly
clear (black) and there is nothing
much to work with and that adds a lot
of GRAIN -- but GRAIN that just looks
like mud. Not good.

EKTACHORME
Basically a Reversal Film Stock
should be "perfectly" exxposed.
Not over. Not under.

Remember though, if you
OV EREXPOSE Reversal film stock
you get a clear (white) piece
of film. Not much to work with.

OVEREXPOSED
On that CitiBank TV Spot I recently
shot, I was exterior with
a Canon 1014E shooting a dirt road
with two (2) girls standing in the
forground and background next to
a field at sunset.

The camera MANUAL exposure
mechanism malfunctioned somehow,
and I watched the exposure needle
inside the viewfinder just
DRIFT ALL THE WAY OPEN during
the shot.

I couln't fix it, so I switdhed
to another camera.

In TELECINE I waited to see that
shot, and sure enough, the
Ektachrome film was nearly
CLEAR.

Chaz, the colorist at RUSHES
in Los Angeles, dialed up us
Divinci Color Corrector in his
Rank URSA Diamond with something
called a "Y-front" and pulled out
some color from the Ektachrome.

It looked kinda like the shot
was hand painted. Sort of pastel
colors.

We shipped it off to the director,
and the Ad Agency with all the other
stuff we'd shot on Super 8.

The word back from the director was
he may use only the Super 8 stuff
from that shot on the dirt road at
sunset with the 2 girls next to the
field.

So, I may do some tests with
Overexposing Ektachrome to see
if I can get that "hand-painted" look
again.

Film Stock is just one tool.
Reversal and Negative both have
their place.

Technique:
An arrangement you have
with yourself, to reach
a desired result, at a
given moment.

I gotta work on my technique
with Ektachrome in case a director
asks to have that "hand-painted"
look again.

RECOMMENDATION
Shoot Color Negative because
it has a lot of latitude when
you over expose it, and a good
colorist with a top of the line
Rank can get a Kodachrome or an
Ektachrome look from it.

But, Kodachrome and Ektachrome
do have their place among your
Super 8 film stock choices.

------------------
JOHN LONGENECKER |
Cinematographer |
www.IndieFilmsOnline.com | [email protected]

[phillipx1]

I hate to be blunt, but I am so tired of hearing how Super 8 Sound destroyed super 8 filmmaking! For one, do we not recall that super 8 was almost dead because OF the lack of film stocks? Only until they introduced the Pro stuff did Kodak introduce the VNF film.
It's a personal choice. K-40 or Pro? They both look great when put through the Rank. Yes, the colors are GOOD on both and the BLACKS AND WHITES are excellent. However, you DO have to work with a colorist that doesn't mind working with the negative stocks. If the Pro stuff is so bad, then advertisers wouldn't pay big bucks to use it. By the way, the pro stuff ISN'T always used to produce a rough look. I happen to recall a Kia commercial as well as a Red Lobster commercial that was shot on Pro 8 that produced extremely sharp images. I would also hate to think that Madonna, as well as The Bare Naked Ladies, and John Couger consider their music videos "low end", because they have had videos shot on the pro stuff! Do you think that when Michael Bay directed Armoggeddon that he though because he used Pro 8 in the movie that his film was "low end"? If I recall, that movie was a blockbuster.
Don't get me wrong, I still use K-40 and LOVE it. BUT, I also admire the pro stuff. Your given more freedom with it when you shoot and when you send it through the Rank.
Maybe if Kodak developes a finer grained high speed stock, (because the VNF stock still isn't the greatest), Super 8 filmmakers would stick with the reversal.
However if you need a faster film the Pro stock is really your other option.
Oh...one more thing....I get my information by doing. Again, it's a personal choice.